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9274. jexster - 12/2/2008 10:58:50 PM Mumbai - International Dick Move
9275. robertjayb - 12/2/2008 11:01:33 PM Mombai police wouldn't shoot, photographer claims...
"There were armed policemen hiding all around the station but none of them did anything," he said. "At one point, I ran up to them and told them to use their weapons. I said, 'Shoot them, they're sitting ducks!' but they just didn't shoot back."
9276. wonkers2 - 12/3/2008 12:56:26 AM Maybe the Bombay policemen aren't allowed to carry loaded weapons without authorization??? 9277. jexster - 12/3/2008 3:35:28 AM The Raj Mahal
 9278. jexster - 12/3/2008 3:36:51 AM 
9279. jexster - 12/4/2008 5:34:08 PM I can't keep track of all AC's gambling activities but I recall something on the price of oil now estimated heading for $25/bbl if China joins in the Great Recession 9280. wonkers2 - 12/4/2008 5:39:19 PM To demonstrate his intention to break with the failed Bush policies and improve our international relationships Obama should join the majority of civilized nations and sign the anti-cluster bomb treaty ASAP! CLUSTER BOMBS 9281. wonkers2 - 12/4/2008 6:52:18 PM More on cluster bombs--Obama--Sign the treaty ASAP! 9282. Wombat - 12/4/2008 8:20:51 PM From what I've been reading, it seems more Kashmiri-related that Al Qaeda. That's too bad, in a sense, because all parties can get behind blaming Al Qaeda instead of each other. If the attackers were linked to Kashmiri groups, then it becomes tricky.
Pakistani regimes in the past sponsored Kashmiri groups in part to make life difficult for India, and in part to give Islamicists someone to fight instead of--potentially--the Pakistan government.
India seized and continues to hold Kashmir against the wishes of the majority of the region's population. Indian government repression in Kashmir is far removed for the picture of Democracy that India presents to the world.
The attack strikes directly at the thawing of relations between India and Pakistan that has been taking place since Musharraf stepped down. The current Pakistani government can correctly deny that they had a role in the attack, but they cannot deny that elements in the military and intelligence communities played a role in training and protecting Kshmiri militants--and may still be doing so.
India can justifiably blame Pakistan for its role--however indirect--in the attack, but they canot evade their own responsibility for keeping the conflict over Kashmir bubbling away.
The US can usefully attempt to mediate between the countries and work toward a joint investigation. Hopefully Condolezza RIce retains enough influence to get that process going.
There will not be progress toward a longer-term solution until India and Pakistan are able to admit their roles in feeding the conflict, and not evade their responsibility for the conflict by inflaming nationalist and religious sentiments instead. 9283. wonkers2 - 12/4/2008 10:16:32 PM That's my impression from what I've read. Condolezza Rice would very much like to blame it on Al Qaeda, but it doesn't like this will fly. 9284. wonkers2 - 12/5/2008 5:17:46 AM Looks to me like he trail for the Mumbai terrorists leads straight to fanatics in Pakistan Pakistan groups appear to be source of Mumbai terror 9285. alistairconnor - 12/5/2008 1:55:12 PM From what I've been reading, it seems more Kashmiri-related that Al Qaeda. That's too bad, in a sense, because all parties can get behind blaming Al Qaeda instead of each other. If the attackers were linked to Kashmiri groups, then it becomes tricky.
Wombat, don't confuse the proximate cause with the big picture. Sure, the Kashmir issue motivated the suicide squad. But what links exist between Lashkar-e-Taiba and Al Q? Is it not likely that they made common cause for this attack? The level of discipline and expertise, and the strategic implications, make links strongly probable, surely.
I've seen analysis that points out the parallels between the Mumbai attack and the NY "landmarks" plot by Al Qaeda in the 90s (which was only prevented because the group was infiltrated, and would have played out much like Mumbai). 9286. Wombat - 12/5/2008 5:49:28 PM Lashkar and Al Qaeda were close a decade ago; there are plenty of reports of individuals going to train to join the former, and ending up in the latter.
I would question the viability of the links today. Lashkar has carried out coordinated attacks with a similar MO before in India (the attack on Parliament, for example). Pakistan has most likely never voluntarily provided training or sanctuary to Al Qaeda, they have certainly done both with Lashkar.
I would caution you against ignoring the proximate cause for the "big picture."
9287. alistairconnor - 12/8/2008 2:25:43 PM Good news from Pakistan :
Arrest of Zakiur ur-Rehman Lakhvi, the supreme commander of Lashkar-e-Taiba
It will be interesting to see how hard the Pak government can crack down on them, without generating a backlash from their own intelligence services. 9288. alistairconnor - 12/8/2008 4:23:32 PM Pakistan has most likely never voluntarily provided training or sanctuary to Al Qaeda, they have certainly done both with Lashkar.
Yes, but Lashkar and Al Q have certainly exchanged training and sanctuary. The transitive link to the ISI is not strong in an operational sense, but embarassing. Likewise, the transitive link between the ISI and the Mumbai atrocities.
Will this give the civilian politicians an opportunity to clean up the ISI? 9289. wonkers2 - 12/8/2008 5:49:47 PM Applying Bush's preemptive strike policy India has cause to attack or invade Pakistan. Fortunately, Obama will have an opportunity to deep six the Bush theory, if he's inclined to do so. My worry is that he's going along with the escalation of our original mission in Afghanistan which was to capture/kill Bin Laden into the impossible or at the very least long and costly task of subduing the Taliban and democratizing a barbaric country that doesn't want to be democratized or civilized by western standards, at least. 9290. wonkers2 - 12/12/2008 8:03:47 PM Bush Nuclear Deal with U.A.E. It sounds plausible on the surface to me. But I'm suspicious of nearly everything with Bush's name on it.??? Opinions?? 9291. vonKreedon - 12/12/2008 8:36:12 PM I share your suspicion of anything this administration does; if not outright corruption, there's the pervasive incompetence.
That being said, based on the information in the article, this looks like a smart move. The US is shown to be very cooperative and supportive of a Gulf Arab state developing nuclear energy when that state cheerfully accepts all the international safeguards one would wish to ensure that the technology does not migrate to weapon production. As the "senior U.S. official" says, "This is a real counterexample to what Iran is doing," said the senior U.S. official Thursday. "We're seeking commitments from nations within the Middle East that they're going to rely on the markets for nuclear fuel." This could work to further isolate Iran for its intransigence. 9292. wonkers2 - 12/12/2008 9:06:37 PM Our reactions were the same. Anybody else? There must be a downside!! 9293. robertjayb - 12/14/2008 12:41:35 AM AP has Mumbai gunman's confession...
Mohammed Ajmal Kasab's seven-page confession, given to police over repeated interrogations, offers chilling new details of the three-day rampage through India's commercial center that left 164 people plus nine gunmen dead.
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