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10326. judithathome - 6/2/2012 8:16:11 PM Well, "they", being the journalists and TV people, possibly had no access to other photos of Zimmerman and Martin...the mug shot of Zimmerman was avaiable. As probably were the school shots of Martin.
They corrected themselves when other pictures became avaiable.
10327. vonKreedon - 6/2/2012 8:23:46 PM Slowly, very slowly. 10328. arkymalarky - 6/2/2012 8:47:07 PM Martin would have been justified killing Zimmerman. The fact that he got a few good licks in before being murdered by someone stalking him is not relevant to whether the aggressor is guilty. 10329. arkymalarky - 6/2/2012 8:50:30 PM It infuriates me that it is being argued as okay that someone walking down the street can be murdered and bears guilt for fighting back. What kind of precedent would that set? 10330. vonKreedon - 6/2/2012 8:51:22 PM Whoa!!! Arky, seriously consider what you just said. You appear to be saying that if I think you are stalking me, as in following me around a neighborhood in which I do not live, I'm within my rights to beat you to death. 10331. vonKreedon - 6/2/2012 8:52:46 PM And Arky, I have tried to be very clear that I am not exonerating Zimmerman for the shooting of Martin, only that there is and has been a rush to judgement when the facts of the case are not at all clear as to how was the attacked and who was acting in self-defense. 10332. arkymalarky - 6/2/2012 9:12:48 PM You're ignoring Zimmerman's 911 call imo 10333. vonKreedon - 6/2/2012 9:30:48 PM How so?
Again, I'm not saying that Zimmerman is innocent or that he should not have been arrested and investigated and charged. I'm also not saying that his recent bail revocation was unfair. I'm only saying that the case is far murkier than the partisanship that has permeated it would have us believe. 10334. arkymalarky - 6/2/2012 10:18:29 PM I disagree. The audio clearly shows he was told not to follow Martin and he did. He has a history of trouble with the law and now of lying. He needs to be tried for at least negligent homicide. He's getting due process, which is all anyone asked for. Is there an indication from what is known that his use of a gun to kill a teenager was proper? Nothing you've posted or that I've read outweighs his aggression from start to finish or removes him from responsibility IMO. Had he ignored that kid, as you're supposed to do when people are walking down the street, the kid would have gone in his dad's house and Zimmerman's life wouldn't be ruined. He was hotdogging playing cop with a gun and nothing Martin was doing justified him ever following him in the first place. 10335. arkymalarky - 6/2/2012 10:21:29 PM And I've taught teens 31 years. The fact that he could be killed just for doing what teens do all the time is disconcerting to say the least. He looks just like lots of kids who've sat in my classes over the years. 10336. vonKreedon - 6/2/2012 11:02:15 PM Arky - As I've said, I believe that Zimmerman should be tried for manslaughter or more, though the Murder 2 charge he's facing seems a bit of a stretch to me. At any rate, my point is not that he's innocent, it's that the case is murky and that if a jury finds him innocent I won't be outraged.
Here's my understanding of the case based on the info in the links I've provided earlier:
- About 7:10PM Zimmerman calls 911 about a suspicious guy, who on prompt by the dispatcher he identifies as likely black. The neighborhood had a recent history of young blacks burglarizing homes and Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch captain. Zimmerman notes that Martin has noticed him and is approaching him with his hand under his hoodie, perhaps in his waistband. The dispatcher says units are on the way, but Zimmerman has been in this position before in which the burglars have gotten away because the police arrive too late.
- Zimmerman says that the suspect has run away and Z. follows him. The dispatcher says, once, not to follow, but Z continues to follow.
- While Z. is talking with 911, M. takes a call from his girlfriend DeeDee. She tells him to run, but he declines, saying he'll walk fast. Given the timeframe for his movement reported by Z, this is likely when Z. says he's running and loses sight of him, leaves his truck and tries to follow.
- DD hears M. confront Z. and a scuffle breaks off the call. The rush to judgement assumed that Z. had caught M. and initiated the scuffle, but it's at least as likely that M. had gone back to confront Z. rather than just going to his father's girlfriend's apartment. It seems likely to me from this map that they surprised each other, each thinking that the other was behaving agressively and that M. initiated the physical violence.
- Eyewitnesses are mixed wrt to how is on top of who when the shot is fired, but given the physical evidence on both Z. and M. it appears the M. was on top and beating Z.
Again, I'm not absolving Z., I'm just saying that the case if murkier that it was first presented.10337. judithathome - 6/2/2012 11:32:26 PM The dispatcher says units are on the way, but Zimmerman has been in this position before in which the burglars have gotten away because the police arrive too late.
Possibly the cops were late in responding because Zimmerman had a history of calling them numerous times before when nothing resulted from his "alarms".
10338. arkymalarky - 6/3/2012 1:34:21 AM I just don't agree with what you think would absolve him, which could only occur in step 4, and I say that because of what transpired in steps1-3. By the point of 4, again IMO, Martin was justified by the available, verifiable info. Due to the DA's inaction and the loss of Physical evidence due to negligence, in addition to Zimmerman being returned to jail for a major lie to a judge, in addition to the phone records corroborating steps 1-3, Zimmerman has a hard row to hoe in proving he was justified in killing Martin. And for the safety of pedestrians everywhere, he shouldn't be. 10339. arkymalarky - 6/3/2012 1:38:05 AM There's no rush to judgment, just a way to look at the evidence. Had this situation not gotten publicity there likely would have been no action taken at all, which would be a denial of justice. Martin's parents rightly didn't accept that. 10340. concerned - 6/3/2012 4:36:27 AM arky -
Do me a favor & don't teach anybody anything related to law, ok? 10341. concerned - 6/3/2012 4:41:40 AM Btw, the Egyptian government has not sentenced Mubarak to death but instead to a life in prison. Say what you will about it, that is vastly more justice than the 9mm trial and execution that was delivered to bin Laden. 10342. arkymalarky - 6/3/2012 5:01:40 AM Sorry Con'd. Too late by about 30 years. 10343. arkymalarky - 6/3/2012 5:05:13 AM It's extreme even for a GOP apologist to suggest the killing of bin laden was unjustly carried out. He dove for his weapon and was shot. Happens here all the time. Maybe you need to get more active with Amnesty International. 10344. concerned - 6/3/2012 5:41:54 AM Re. 10343 -
bin Laden did not 'dive' for any weapon according to the account I read. And you are aware, of course, that the mission objective was to kill him regardless of whether he was begging for mercy.
You are just not temperamentally suited to an objective interpretation of law, Arky. You are obviously 100% non judgmental of who you like and totally dismissive of who you don't like. In some ways that is a positive trait, but not in an supposedly objective discussion of what constitutes justice. 10345. concerned - 6/3/2012 5:44:17 AM What is it with this 'cannibalfest'? We have at least 3 in the news now - all clearly Left leaning, btw.
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